From cyanide@worldforge.org Wed Dec 13 09:33:03 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from urban.iinet.net.au (urban.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.231]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B11BC5D48; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:33:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from popserver-02.iinet.net.au (popserver-02.iinet.net.au [203.59.24.148]) by urban.iinet.net.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id BAA17969; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:33:41 +0800 Received: from worldforge.org (per-qv1-nas18-86.dlp.iinet.net.au [203.59.193.86]) by popserver-02.iinet.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA27934; Thu, 14 Dec 2000 01:33:39 +0800 Message-ID: <3A37B2F3.E7102C9F@worldforge.org> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:33:39 +0000 From: Oliver White X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: server@worldforge.org, scripting@worldforge.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [WF-Scripting] Rules implementation Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation Which is the appropriate list for discussing rules implementation with stage? I suppose we should keep the discussion on server@ for now, whilst the infrastructure is put in place, but I think in the not-to-distant future I'd like to work with 3rd parties to help develop rules modules. Will scripters@ ever have life breathed into it? -- Oliver White - New email address: cyanide@worldforge.org Developer for WorldForge: http://www.worldforge.org From bryce@neptune.net Wed Dec 13 10:46:41 2000 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51B7C6248; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:46:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (bryce@localhost) by pulsar.neptune.net (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id eBDIkuF32633; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:47:01 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 10:46:56 -0800 (PST) From: Bryce Harrington To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Cc: server@worldforge.org, scripting@worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] Rules implementation In-Reply-To: <3A37B2F3.E7102C9F@worldforge.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0beta5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation use rules@? On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Oliver White wrote: > Which is the appropriate list for discussing rules implementation with > stage? I suppose we should keep the discussion on server@ for now, > whilst the infrastructure is put in place, but I think in the > not-to-distant future I'd like to work with 3rd parties to help develop > rules modules. > > Will scripters@ ever have life breathed into it? > > -- > Oliver White - New email address: cyanide@worldforge.org > Developer for WorldForge: http://www.worldforge.org > > _______________________________________________ > Scripting mailing list > Scripting@mail.worldforge.org > http://mail.worldforge.org/lists/listinfo/scripting > -- Bryce Harrington bryce @ neptune.net From admin@rfl.pl Sat Mar 3 09:22:16 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from rfl500.rfl.pl (rfl.pl [212.75.108.54]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E686D4B59 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 09:22:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfl75.rfl.pl ([192.168.1.2] helo=rfl.pl ident=rfl) by rfl500.rfl.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14ZFjs-0004vN-00 for ; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:22:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3AA12878.9C753EC7@rfl.pl> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:23:04 +0100 From: RaFaL Pocztarski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i586) X-Accept-Language: pl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hi, I'd like to learn how to write ai scripts. Maybe I could join the project, write some scripts controlling NPC's, animals etc. I think that even a rat should have some sort of ai and scripting animals behaviour should be very important for the world realism. I'm thinking about joining the WF Project and scripting is thing which I'm most interrested in for now. There isn't to much at http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/scripting.html or also here, on scripting@mail.worldforge.org, so tell me, where can I find more details about scripting in WF? I'd like to know how to write them and have some method for testing the scripts, maybe using the UClient. Is it possible? Thanks. -- -- RaFaL Pocztarski -- mailto:admin@rfl.pl -- http://rfl.pl/ -- From bryce@neptune.net Sun Mar 4 00:15:10 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 374AED52A4 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 00:15:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (bryce@localhost) by pulsar.neptune.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f248FUI17076 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 00:15:30 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 00:15:30 -0800 (PST) From: Bryce Harrington To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting In-Reply-To: <3AA12878.9C753EC7@rfl.pl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, RaFaL Pocztarski wrote: > I'd like to learn how to write ai scripts. Maybe I could join the > project, write some scripts controlling NPC's, animals etc. I think that > even a rat should have some sort of ai and scripting animals behaviour > should be very important for the world realism. I'm thinking about > joining the WF Project and scripting is thing which I'm most interrested > in for now. Welcome to the project. :-) You'll want to be looking into Cyphesis, which is our AI server. You can create AI scripts for whatever you feel the urge to do. There are already several AI scripts there that you can use as samples. I think we've even got some code for operating a squirrel. ;-) Cyphesis has some very cool goal-based AI capabilities in it, that you can use to make fairly sophisticated bots (*MUCH* more sophisticated than your typical MUD mob.) You will want to get a Linux box, install python, SDL, Atlas-C++, UClient, and Cyphesis, and once you've got that up and running, you can see the scripts we've got so far in action. There is a soldier that patrols the town, pigs that eat acorns, wolves, crabs, and a skeleton. IIRC, there is also a farmer who is programmed to grow crops, respond to having his house burned down, chop trees, etc. I think you'll have lots of fun fiddling with these scripts. :-) I think you might enjoy asking around if there are perhaps some others that would also like to learn AI scripting, so you can help each other learn and bounce ideas off of each other. Once you've learned how to create the AI scripts, it would be *great* if you could help us create some of the AI that we will need for Mason. You'll want to talk to Zzorn some day, and keep an eye out for the Mason meetings (they occur bi-weekly). I think there is still a lot of flexibility in what kinds of creatures to put into the game, and so the opportunity to define the Mason AI needs is still open if you're interested. Once those requirements are in hand, there's nothing to get in the way of making prototype implementations of them in Cyphesis. > There isn't to much at > http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/scripting.html or also here, > on scripting@mail.worldforge.org, so tell me, where can I find more > details about scripting in WF? I'd like to know how to write them and > have some method for testing the scripts, maybe using the UClient. Is it > possible? 'Fraid the only good direction I can point you is to the Cyphesis source code. I would *love* to see someone generate some simple docs to assist other potential AI developers in learning how to start scripting. We certainly have enough examples and experience doing it that it's worth writing some guidelines down. I know it can be frustrating for new developers to obtain enough information to be able to even start work on AI scripting, so anyone who can work to mitigate that will be doing a lot of long-term good for our project. Once you feel you've got a grasp on AI, would you mind spending a few days helping us with writing down what you've learned? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryce Harrington bryce @ neptune.net bryceharrington @ yahoo.com From deathguard@yahoo.com Sun Mar 4 08:19:44 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from web124.yahoomail.com (web124.mail.yahoo.com [205.180.60.192]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 31CE8D49BF for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 08:19:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 25032 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Mar 2001 16:19:58 -0000 Message-ID: <20010304161958.25031.qmail@web124.yahoomail.com> Received: from [208.25.49.211] by web124.yahoomail.com; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 08:19:58 PST Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 08:19:58 -0800 (PST) From: "Hans W. Uhlig" Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Reply-To: deathguard@yahoo.com List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Actually Ive been looking for a way to actually produce something rather than just notes for the TehnoCirce so.... I will be doing the same... contact me via email at deathguard@yahoo.com or im usually in #lounge Cya all later --- Bryce Harrington wrote: > On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, RaFaL Pocztarski wrote: > > I'd like to learn how to write ai scripts. Maybe I > could join the > > project, write some scripts controlling NPC's, > animals etc. I think that > > even a rat should have some sort of ai and > scripting animals behaviour > > should be very important for the world realism. > I'm thinking about > > joining the WF Project and scripting is thing > which I'm most interrested > > in for now. > > Welcome to the project. :-) > > You'll want to be looking into Cyphesis, which is > our AI server. You > can create AI scripts for whatever you feel the urge > to do. There are > already several AI scripts there that you can use as > samples. I think > we've even got some code for operating a squirrel. > ;-) Cyphesis has > some very cool goal-based AI capabilities in it, > that you can use to > make fairly sophisticated bots (*MUCH* more > sophisticated than your > typical MUD mob.) > > You will want to get a Linux box, install python, > SDL, Atlas-C++, > UClient, and Cyphesis, and once you've got that up > and running, you can > see the scripts we've got so far in action. There > is a soldier that > patrols the town, pigs that eat acorns, wolves, > crabs, and a skeleton. > IIRC, there is also a farmer who is programmed to > grow crops, respond to > having his house burned down, chop trees, etc. I > think you'll have lots > of fun fiddling with these scripts. :-) > > I think you might enjoy asking around if there are > perhaps some others > that would also like to learn AI scripting, so you > can help each other > learn and bounce ideas off of each other. > > Once you've learned how to create the AI scripts, it > would be *great* if > you could help us create some of the AI that we will > need for Mason. > You'll want to talk to Zzorn some day, and keep an > eye out for the Mason > meetings (they occur bi-weekly). I think there is > still a lot of > flexibility in what kinds of creatures to put into > the game, and so the > opportunity to define the Mason AI needs is still > open if you're > interested. Once those requirements are in hand, > there's nothing to get > in the way of making prototype implementations of > them in Cyphesis. > > > There isn't to much at > > > http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/scripting.html > or also here, > > on scripting@mail.worldforge.org, so tell me, > where can I find more > > details about scripting in WF? I'd like to know > how to write them and > > have some method for testing the scripts, maybe > using the UClient. Is it > > possible? > > 'Fraid the only good direction I can point you is to > the Cyphesis source > code. I would *love* to see someone generate some > simple docs to assist > other potential AI developers in learning how to > start scripting. We > certainly have enough examples and experience doing > it that it's worth > writing some guidelines down. I know it can be > frustrating for new > developers to obtain enough information to be able > to even start work on > AI scripting, so anyone who can work to mitigate > that will be doing a > lot of long-term good for our project. Once you > feel you've got a grasp > on AI, would you mind spending a few days helping us > with writing down > what you've learned? > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bryce Harrington bryce @ neptune.net > bryceharrington @ yahoo.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Scripting mailing list > Scripting@mail.worldforge.org > http://mail.worldforge.org/lists/listinfo/scripting ===== /**************************************************\ | Hans Uhlig Deathguard@yahoo.com | | "Life is a long and Lonely Road, Brind a friend" | | Ashar Babbage | | Clan Tremere | | Snowy Rock Chantry | \**************************************************/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ From scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Sun Mar 4 10:15:15 2001 Path: needle!not-for-mail From: "Hans Uhlig" Newsgroups: worldforge.scripting Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 10:00:17 -0800 Organization: The Worldforge Project Lines: 3 Message-ID: <97u0gf$fv4$1@needle.worldforge.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208-25-49-211.stk.inreach.net X-Trace: needle.worldforge.org 983729487 16356 208.25.49.211 (4 Mar 2001 18:11:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: jack@worldforge.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Mar 2001 18:11:27 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Xref: needle worldforge.scripting:1167 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: [WF-Scripting] Who all is on this list who does scripting(no text) Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: From ojw@unite.com.au Mon Mar 5 02:28:10 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from mail-01.unite.com.au (pop.unite.com.au [202.53.43.12]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82808D48E9 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 02:28:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from unite.com.au (ojw@dialup-203.ap1-nas4.unite.mel.dav.net.au [203.174.144.203]) by mail-01.unite.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/UNITED/1.0) with ESMTP id VAA08527 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:28:32 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <3AA36A4E.F4F2656A@unite.com.au> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 10:28:30 +0000 From: Oliver White X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] Who all is on this list who does scripting(no text) References: <97u0gf$fv4$1@needle.worldforge.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Uhm... I"m on the list... :-) Hans Uhlig wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > Scripting mailing list > Scripting@mail.worldforge.org > http://mail.worldforge.org/lists/listinfo/scripting From admin@rfl.pl Mon Mar 5 16:56:10 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from rfl500.rfl.pl (rfl.pl [212.75.108.54]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86844D04F7 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:56:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfl75.rfl.pl ([192.168.1.2] helo=rfl.pl ident=rfl) by rfl500.rfl.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14a5mL-00074I-00 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:56:41 +0100 Message-ID: <3AA435E1.812B5585@rfl.pl> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:57:05 +0100 From: RaFaL Pocztarski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i586) X-Accept-Language: pl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting References: <20010304161958.25031.qmail@web124.yahoomail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: "Hans W. Uhlig" wrote: > Actually Ive been looking for a way to actually > produce something rather than just notes for the > TehnoCirce so.... I will be doing the same... contact > me via email at deathguard@yahoo.com or im usually in > #lounge Cya all later Thanks, first I have to install, run and learn how to use the software, and learn Python, it will take me some time. -- RaFaL Pocztarski -- mailto:admin@rfl.pl -- http://rfl.pl/ -- From admin@rfl.pl Mon Mar 5 16:56:02 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from rfl500.rfl.pl (rfl.pl [212.75.108.54]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35F1D04F7 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 16:55:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfl75.rfl.pl ([192.168.1.2] helo=rfl.pl ident=rfl) by rfl500.rfl.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14a5m7-00074B-00 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:56:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3AA435D3.7F95A1E3@rfl.pl> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:56:51 +0100 From: RaFaL Pocztarski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i586) X-Accept-Language: pl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Bryce Harrington wrote: > Welcome to the project. :-) Great. I've been observing the WorldForge for some time. I'm sure that very soon, the commercial games, like UO, will have no chances for cometition with WF. The WF will evolve constantly and when there will be couple of fully playable WF products, people would have no reason to spend money on other games, wich will of course have to be less complex and realistic. > You'll want to be looking into Cyphesis, which is our AI server. You > can create AI scripts for whatever you feel the urge to do. There are > already several AI scripts there that you can use as samples. I think > we've even got some code for operating a squirrel. ;-) Cyphesis has > some very cool goal-based AI capabilities in it, that you can use to > make fairly sophisticated bots (*MUCH* more sophisticated than your > typical MUD mob.) Simulating animals is very interresting for me and the coolest thing here is that these scripts in action will actually look like those animals, will live in very realistic enviroment and interact with other animals, humans and everything else. It will be nice to observe them living and facing "real" problems. > You will want to get a Linux box, install python, SDL, Atlas-C++, > UClient, and Cyphesis, and once you've got that up and running, you can > see the scripts we've got so far in action. OK, I need some time to figure out how to install and run all of them. I use Debian but I can't use the .deb files because of many dependency problems. Now I'm trying to make them up from the sources, I have some problems and I'm pretty busy now so it could take me some time. > There is a soldier that > patrols the town, pigs that eat acorns, wolves, crabs, and a skeleton. > IIRC, there is also a farmer who is programmed to grow crops, respond to > having his house burned down, chop trees, etc. I think you'll have lots > of fun fiddling with these scripts. :-) I think so. I will propably start learning Cyphesis AI scripting, and Python in general, experimenting with already existing scripts. > I think you might enjoy asking around if there are perhaps some others > that would also like to learn AI scripting, so you can help each other > learn and bounce ideas off of each other. Sure, it's always easier and faster to learn in a group. > Once you've learned how to create the AI scripts, it would be *great* if > you could help us create some of the AI that we will need for Mason. I would love to. I've read everything about Mason and I think it will be a great game, when players start to build houses and whole cities. There should be many different profesions around building, so at the beginning the game would need many NPC's. How do you think, when approximately could it be playable for normal players? > You'll want to talk to Zzorn some day, and keep an eye out for the Mason > meetings (they occur bi-weekly). I think there is still a lot of > flexibility in what kinds of creatures to put into the game, and so the > opportunity to define the Mason AI needs is still open if you're > interested. Once those requirements are in hand, there's nothing to get > in the way of making prototype implementations of them in Cyphesis. First I have to learn the way it is functioning now and understand the whole idea, but later I'm sure I will be glad to have as much contribution to the project as possible. > 'Fraid the only good direction I can point you is to the Cyphesis source > code. Well, it's not so simple to understand for me, at least now. I think it will take me some time. > I would *love* to see someone generate some simple docs to assist > other potential AI developers in learning how to start scripting. We > certainly have enough examples and experience doing it that it's worth > writing some guidelines down. I know it can be frustrating for new > developers to obtain enough information to be able to even start work on > AI scripting, so anyone who can work to mitigate that will be doing a > lot of long-term good for our project. Once you feel you've got a grasp > on AI, would you mind spending a few days helping us with writing down > what you've learned? I could write some simple tutorial while starting to understand the idea. It wouldn't take me much time to just add few lines when I get something new. But I don't know when I would start, I don't have much free time lately. I think that the WF Project is very interresting and I'll try to use for it most of my free time. When I finally figure out how to install, run and use the software, learning the scripting itself should go fast, as I can see Python is pretty easy to read for beginners so I will learn from existing code. Thanks. -- RaFaL Pocztarski -- mailto:admin@rfl.pl -- http://rfl.pl/ -- From bryce@neptune.net Mon Mar 5 18:28:12 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E8FFD48C3 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (bryce@localhost) by pulsar.neptune.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f262Sg918534 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:28:42 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:28:42 -0800 (PST) From: Bryce Harrington To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting In-Reply-To: <3AA435D3.7F95A1E3@rfl.pl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, RaFaL Pocztarski wrote: > Great. I've been observing the WorldForge for some time. I'm sure that > very soon, the commercial games, like UO, will have no chances for > cometition with WF. The WF will evolve constantly and when there will > be couple of fully playable WF products, people would have no reason > to spend money on other games, wich will of course have to be less > complex and realistic. Man, wouldn't that be great!! Yes, that's exactly what we want to see happen. I think we've got half a chance, too. > OK, I need some time to figure out how to install and run all of > them. I use Debian but I can't use the .deb files because of many > dependency problems. Now I'm trying to make them up from the sources, > I have some problems and I'm pretty busy now so it could take me some > time. *Nod* Having this as the goal will give good purpose to the work. I think you'll find it not *too* difficult to get this set up. Good luck! Lotsa people can help so if you get stuck, ask around. > > Once you've learned how to create the AI scripts, it would be *great* if > > you could help us create some of the AI that we will need for Mason. > I would love to. I've read everything about Mason and I think it will > be a great game, when players start to build houses and whole > cities. There should be many different profesions around building, so > at the beginning the game would need many NPC's. How do you think, > when approximately could it be playable for normal players? Who can say at this point. Acorn has taken approximately a year, and while Mason is more sophisticated, we also have a headstart due to having already done Acorn. In the end it really depends on how many people can contribute time to it. > > 'Fraid the only good direction I can point you is to the Cyphesis source > > code. > > Well, it's not so simple to understand for me, at least now. I think it > will > take me some time. Yup, but I think you'll enjoy it. :-) You don't need to look at all the code - just the parts that involve the pigs and other critters, and if I remember correctly this is all in its own subdir, so you won't be overwhelmed by a lot of code (unless you want to!) > I could write some simple tutorial while starting to understand the > idea. It wouldn't take me much time to just add few lines when I get > something new. But I don't know when I would start, I don't have much > free time lately. I think that the WF Project is very interresting > and I'll try to use for it most of my free time. When I finally figure > out how to install, run and use the software, learning the scripting > itself should go fast, as I can see Python is pretty easy to read for > beginners so I will learn from existing code. Cool. I think you have a good approach. If you're limited in time, focus first on the interesting bits, and the tutorial can come secondarily if you have time. -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryce Harrington bryce @ neptune.net bryceharrington @ yahoo.com From admin@rfl.pl Tue Mar 6 06:40:22 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from rfl500.rfl.pl (rfl.pl [212.75.108.54]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC9D5D529A for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 06:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfl75.rfl.pl ([192.168.1.2] helo=rfl.pl ident=rfl) by rfl500.rfl.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14aIdp-0000i5-00 for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:40:45 +0100 Message-ID: <3AA4F704.C833882E@rfl.pl> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:41:08 +0100 From: RaFaL Pocztarski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i586) X-Accept-Language: pl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Bryce Harrington wrote: > Man, wouldn't that be great!! Yes, that's exactly what we want to see > happen. I think we've got half a chance, too. I think that's only a metter of time. I don't really think that WF could have any serious commercial rival after, let's say, 10 years from now. I just don't know if it would be 10 or maybe 2 years. > *Nod* Having this as the goal will give good purpose to the work. > I think you'll find it not *too* difficult to get this set up. Good > luck! Lotsa people can help so if you get stuck, ask around. OK, I will when I know what to ask about, but now I don't know what's really wrong. :) > Who can say at this point. Acorn has taken approximately a year, > and while Mason is more sophisticated, we also have a headstart due to > having already done Acorn. In the end it really depends on how many > people can contribute time to it. I'm just wondering how much time I will have to learn and write some useful scripts. Of course it's never too late to contribute but I'd like to have some of my scripts in Mason's first playable version. Btw, what scripts would Mason need first? > Yup, but I think you'll enjoy it. :-) You don't need to look at all > the code - just the parts that involve the pigs and other critters, and > if I remember correctly this is all in its own subdir, so you won't be > overwhelmed by a lot of code (unless you want to!) Yes, the code is divided in a very nice way. When I figure out all I need it should be easy to experiment a litle bit. > Cool. I think you have a good approach. If you're limited in time, > focus first on the interesting bits, and the tutorial can come > secondarily if you have time. First of all I have to just run the software, I thought that it would be much simplier. Then I think starting to make some really simple scripts wouldn't take me very long. At that point I should be able to write some simple beginers tutorial. I have a lot of work now but this project is much more interresting, so when I start I would always find some time to play with the scripts. How the scripts will be executed in a real game? Thousands of animals and NPC's would need a lot of computing power. Will everything be done on the server? -- -- RaFaL Pocztarski -- mailto:admin@rfl.pl -- http://rfl.pl/ -- From admin@rfl.pl Wed Mar 7 13:36:15 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from rfl500.rfl.pl (rfl.pl [212.75.108.54]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CCBD5067 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:36:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfl75.rfl.pl ([192.168.1.2] helo=rfl.pl ident=rfl) by rfl500.rfl.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14albu-00026E-00 for ; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:36:42 +0100 Message-ID: <3AA6AA01.B90FEF10@rfl.pl> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:37:05 +0100 From: RaFaL Pocztarski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i586) X-Accept-Language: pl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Bryce Harrington wrote: > I think you'll find it not *too* difficult to get this set up. Good > luck! Lotsa people can help so if you get stuck, ask around. OK, that's it, I don't have time to try any more. If you can't answer my questions, please tell me who could. I got Python (with every library) and SDL installed from my Debian CD's and downloaded Atlas-C++-0.4.0.tar.gz, cyphesis-0.0.11.tar.gz and uclient-0.10.0-2.tar.gz. I just want to know what is the standard system configuration when everything installs without any problems. (I suppose that there are systems for which these packages were optimized) Paths, libraries, system distribution - everything which could help. I use Debian 2.2 Potato (the latest stable version) which I believe isn't very uncommon choice. I just wanted to learn AI scripting, not the whole WF software hacking. Thanks. -- RaFaL Pocztarski -- mailto:admin@rfl.pl -- http://rfl.pl/ -- From scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Thu Mar 8 09:00:19 2001 Path: needle!dumle!demitar From: "Anders Petersson" Newsgroups: worldforge.scripting Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 17:55:29 +0100 Organization: The Worldforge Project Lines: 18 Message-ID: <988di0$t79$1@needle.worldforge.org> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dialup1-33.home.se X-Trace: needle.worldforge.org 984070528 29929 212.75.65.33 (8 Mar 2001 16:55:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: jack@worldforge.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Mar 2001 16:55:28 GMT User-Agent: Pan/0.9.1 (Unix) X-No-Productlinks: Yes Xref: needle worldforge.scripting:1174 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: In article , "RaFaL Pocztarski" wrote: > libraries, system distribution - everything which could help. I use > Debian 2.2 Potato (the latest stable version) which I believe isn't very > uncommon choice. I just wanted to learn AI scripting, not the whole WF > software hacking. Thanks. Since you use Debian there actually are .debs out there although I really should update them. Just add this to your /etc/apt/sources.list : deb ftp://kafka.i-site.com/pub/wf/debian unstable main deb-src ftp://kafka.i-site.com/pub/wf/debian unstable main But I think you'll need to read some about acorn/cyphesis internals anyway (although someone else will have to answer that. And please give feedback on the packages. -- Anders Petersson aka Demitar "Isn't that dangerous?" "Yes, but I'm reckless and welding is fun!" - Beneath a Steel Sky From admin@rfl.pl Mon Mar 12 00:29:06 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from rfl500.rfl.pl (rfl.pl [212.75.108.54]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 281F5CFE8C for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 00:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfl75.rfl.pl ([192.168.1.2] helo=rfl.pl ident=rfl) by rfl500.rfl.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14cNiA-00016M-00 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:29:50 +0100 Message-ID: <3AAC8927.7944DE67@rfl.pl> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:30:31 +0100 From: RaFaL Pocztarski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i586) X-Accept-Language: pl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting References: <988di0$t79$1@needle.worldforge.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Anders Petersson wrote: > Since you use Debian there actually are .debs out there although I really > should update them. Just add this to your /etc/apt/sources.list : > deb ftp://kafka.i-site.com/pub/wf/debian unstable main > deb-src ftp://kafka.i-site.com/pub/wf/debian unstable main > But I think you'll need to read some about acorn/cyphesis internals > anyway (although someone else will have to answer that. > And please give feedback on the packages. I have tried already .debs from ftp://ftp.ecs.soton.ac.uk/pub/worldforge/debian but I had many dependency problems. I use Potato and almost every library on my system which those .debs depends on is too old. Your .debs from ftp://kafka.i-site.com/pub/wf/debian are newer so I don't think they would depend on older libs, but now I'm downloading them, anyway. This .debs AFAIK were made for Woody, but there's not stable version of Woody yet, so I still use Potato. Thanks. -- RaFaL Pocztarski -- http://rfl.pl/ -- From ojw@unite.com.au Fri Mar 16 02:00:13 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from mail-01.unite.com.au (pop.unite.com.au [202.53.43.12]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03323B9066; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from unite.com.au (ojw@dialup-9.ap1-nas1.unite.mel.dav.net.au [203.111.29.9]) by mail-01.unite.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/UNITED/1.0) with ESMTP id VAA25055; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:00:12 +1100 (EST) Message-ID: <3AB1E42B.9E871280@unite.com.au> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:00:11 +0000 From: Oliver White X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: general@worldforge.org, scripting@worldforge.org, rules@worldforge.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [WF-Scripting] Scripting mailing list Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Just a note to let people know that that the scripting mailing list may become active again quite soon. With the way stage is progressing people will soon be able to develop rulesets for the system. I'm quite happy to field questions and take suggestions on the API for rules programmers. Scripting@worldforge.org is of course the mailing list for discussion of ruleset implementation. -- Oliver White From Timothy.Musson@zin-tech.com Mon Mar 19 06:50:56 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from seraph2.lerc.nasa.gov (seraph2.lerc.nasa.gov [198.118.142.11]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 48156D5922 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 06:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by seraph2.lerc.nasa.gov; id JAA14083; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:51:06 -0500 Received: from lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov(139.88.112.33) by seraph2.lerc.nasa.gov via smap (V5.5) id xma013965; Mon, 19 Mar 01 09:50:51 -0500 Received: from ADF87 (adf87.lerc.nasa.gov [139.88.52.40]) by lombok-fi.lerc.nasa.gov (NASA LeRC 8.9.1.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA03226; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:50:50 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <4.0.2.20010305112552.00c2a240@mail.zin-tech.com> X-Sender: mussont@mail.zin-tech.com (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.0.2 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:50:15 -0500 To: "Hans W. Uhlig" , scripting@mail.worldforge.org From: "Timothy A. Musson" Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting In-Reply-To: <20010304161958.25031.qmail@web124.yahoomail.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Hello, I introduced myself about a week ago. I'm waiting for a power supply to arrive so I can put my Linux box together. Hopefully, that will happen this week/weekend. My goal is to have the beginning steps that Bryce mentions in the email below completed by the end of this weekend. I was wanting to help with the Cyphesis Newbie's Guide, so I'll be taking notes on how my install goes, but is the newbie guide supposed to cover installation or just scripting? I plan to document pretty much everything I learn anyway (for my own good). Are there any works-in-progress in this area that aren't already up on the web page? -Tim At 11:19 AM 3/4/01 , Hans W. Uhlig wrote: >Actually Ive been looking for a way to actually >produce something rather than just notes for the >TehnoCirce so.... I will be doing the same... contact >me via email at deathguard@yahoo.com or im usually in >#lounge Cya all later > >--- Bryce Harrington wrote: >> On Sat, 3 Mar 2001, RaFaL Pocztarski wrote: >> > I'd like to learn how to write ai scripts. Maybe I >> could join the >> > project, write some scripts controlling NPC's, >> animals etc. I think that >> > even a rat should have some sort of ai and >> scripting animals behaviour >> > should be very important for the world realism. >> I'm thinking about >> > joining the WF Project and scripting is thing >> which I'm most interrested >> > in for now. >> >> Welcome to the project. :-) >> >> You'll want to be looking into Cyphesis, which is >> our AI server. You >> can create AI scripts for whatever you feel the urge >> to do. There are >> already several AI scripts there that you can use as >> samples. I think >> we've even got some code for operating a squirrel. >> ;-) Cyphesis has >> some very cool goal-based AI capabilities in it, >> that you can use to >> make fairly sophisticated bots (*MUCH* more >> sophisticated than your >> typical MUD mob.) >> >> You will want to get a Linux box, install python, >> SDL, Atlas-C++, >> UClient, and Cyphesis, and once you've got that up >> and running, you can >> see the scripts we've got so far in action. There >> is a soldier that >> patrols the town, pigs that eat acorns, wolves, >> crabs, and a skeleton. >> IIRC, there is also a farmer who is programmed to >> grow crops, respond to >> having his house burned down, chop trees, etc. I >> think you'll have lots >> of fun fiddling with these scripts. :-) >> >> I think you might enjoy asking around if there are >> perhaps some others >> that would also like to learn AI scripting, so you >> can help each other >> learn and bounce ideas off of each other. >> >> Once you've learned how to create the AI scripts, it >> would be *great* if >> you could help us create some of the AI that we will >> need for Mason. >> You'll want to talk to Zzorn some day, and keep an >> eye out for the Mason >> meetings (they occur bi-weekly). I think there is >> still a lot of >> flexibility in what kinds of creatures to put into >> the game, and so the >> opportunity to define the Mason AI needs is still >> open if you're >> interested. Once those requirements are in hand, >> there's nothing to get >> in the way of making prototype implementations of >> them in Cyphesis. >> >> > There isn't to much at >> > >> >http://www.worldforge.org/website/clients/scripting.html >> or also here, >> > on scripting@mail.worldforge.org, so tell me, >> where can I find more >> > details about scripting in WF? I'd like to know >> how to write them and >> > have some method for testing the scripts, maybe >> using the UClient. Is it >> > possible? >> >> 'Fraid the only good direction I can point you is to >> the Cyphesis source >> code. I would *love* to see someone generate some >> simple docs to assist >> other potential AI developers in learning how to >> start scripting. We >> certainly have enough examples and experience doing >> it that it's worth >> writing some guidelines down. I know it can be >> frustrating for new >> developers to obtain enough information to be able >> to even start work on >> AI scripting, so anyone who can work to mitigate >> that will be doing a >> lot of long-term good for our project. Once you >> feel you've got a grasp >> on AI, would you mind spending a few days helping us >> with writing down >> what you've learned? >> >> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Bryce Harrington bryce @ neptune.net >> bryceharrington @ yahoo.com >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Scripting mailing list >> Scripting@mail.worldforge.org >> http://mail.worldforge.org/lists/listinfo/scripting > > >===== >/**************************************************\ >| Hans Uhlig Deathguard@yahoo.com | >| "Life is a long and Lonely Road, Brind a friend" | >| Ashar Babbage | >| Clan Tremere | >| Snowy Rock Chantry | >\**************************************************/ > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. >http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > >_______________________________________________ >Scripting mailing list >Scripting@mail.worldforge.org >http://mail.worldforge.org/lists/listinfo/scripting > From ojw@unite.com.au Fri Apr 6 18:45:23 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from mail-01.unite.com.au (pop.unite.com.au [202.53.43.12]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA557A714F; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 18:45:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unite.com.au (ojw@dialup-2.ap1-nas8.unite.mel.dav.net.au [203.111.132.2]) by mail-01.unite.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/UNITED/1.0) with ESMTP id LAA25646; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 11:45:39 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <3ACE7142.31674A02@unite.com.au> Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 01:45:38 +0000 From: Oliver White X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: server , General , scripting@worldforge.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [WF-Scripting] Pegasus work today Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm taking the day to work with pegasus, parts of shepherd and the rules development API. This work will affect a lot of people, and I'd love your input. I'll be around most of today, bar a shopping trip in an hour or so. It's midday here now, so I've got plenty of time. If you're interested in hacking rules modules, or working on stage internals, I'm free for chat. (look for cyanide, for those of you who don't know my nick). :-) -- Oliver White From ojw@unite.com.au Mon Apr 9 02:49:24 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from mail-01.unite.com.au (pop.unite.com.au [202.53.43.12]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9418C7998; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 02:49:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unite.com.au (ojw@dialup-80.ap1-nas6.unite.mel.dav.net.au [203.174.146.80]) by mail-01.unite.com.au (8.9.3/8.9.3/UNITED/1.0) with ESMTP id TAA22107; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:49:47 +1000 (EST) Message-ID: <3AD185BA.E6216869@unite.com.au> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 19:49:46 +1000 From: Oliver White X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.16 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: client@mail.worldforge.org, scripting@worldforge.org References: <3AD02D08.4007D485@rhrk.uni-kl.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [WF-Scripting] Re: [WF-Client] UClient status Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Karsten wrote: > I am planning to move Uclient'S complete UI implementation away from > C++/libuta to LUA/Janus. With LUA/Janus it would be very easy to > exchange the complete interface, so that it fits to the played game or > just to personal needs :) Hmm... I've never heard of LUA. What kind of scripting language is it? Could we build in support for python? -- Oliver White From bryce@neptune.net Tue Apr 17 17:44:13 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90611C8AF4 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:44:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (bryce@localhost) by pulsar.neptune.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f3I0j4611795 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:45:04 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 17:45:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Bryce Harrington To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting In-Reply-To: <3AA4F704.C833882E@rfl.pl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, RaFaL Pocztarski wrote: > Bryce Harrington wrote: > > > Man, wouldn't that be great!! Yes, that's exactly what we want to see > > happen. I think we've got half a chance, too. > > I think that's only a metter of time. I don't really think that WF could have > any serious commercial rival after, let's say, 10 years from now. I just don't > know if it would be 10 or maybe 2 years. Let's hope for 2 years. ;-) > > *Nod* Having this as the goal will give good purpose to the work. > > I think you'll find it not *too* difficult to get this set up. Good > > luck! Lotsa people can help so if you get stuck, ask around. > > OK, I will when I know what to ask about, but now I don't know what's really > wrong. :) How are things coming now, btw? > > Who can say at this point. Acorn has taken approximately a year, > > and while Mason is more sophisticated, we also have a headstart due to > > having already done Acorn. In the end it really depends on how many > > people can contribute time to it. > > I'm just wondering how much time I will have to learn and write some useful > scripts. Of course it's never too late to contribute but I'd like to have some > of my scripts in Mason's first playable version. Well, one of the first really big requirements that needs to be in place before we can come anywhere close to making predictions about when Mason will be ready is the STAGE server. I would think it would require the better part of a year, at least, before STAGE is usable anywhere close to where Mason will need it. This of course is highly dependant on the amount of work people can put into the server over that time. The good news is that right now the team appears to be growing, and individuals who had run out of time previously, seem to have found extra time to put into it. So, figure something on the order of a year. Plenty of time, no? So don't worry if for some months you've got little time; put in what you can when you can, and we'll get there. :-) > Btw, what scripts would Mason need first? Zzorn is a better one to answer this than I, but I would assume that a safe starting point would be wildlife scripts - deer, flocks of birds, etc. I suggest this in large part because people have already been writing these sorts of scripts for Cyphesis and Acorn, and so there is a wealth of examples there. One thing that would be a big help, is to look at this page: http://www.worldforge.org/website/rules/mason/tasks/ and help Zzorn generate a section to list scripts-needed. I think this would be a good starting point for the scripting, and would help us scope out what exactly we're going to need others to help with. > > Yup, but I think you'll enjoy it. :-) You don't need to look at all > > the code - just the parts that involve the pigs and other critters, and > > if I remember correctly this is all in its own subdir, so you won't be > > overwhelmed by a lot of code (unless you want to!) > > Yes, the code is divided in a very nice way. When I figure out all I need it > should be easy to experiment a litle bit. > > > Cool. I think you have a good approach. If you're limited in time, > > focus first on the interesting bits, and the tutorial can come > > secondarily if you have time. > > First of all I have to just run the software, I thought that it would be much > simplier. Then I think starting to make some really simple scripts wouldn't > take me very long. At that point I should be able to write some simple beginers > tutorial. I have a lot of work now but this project is much more interresting, > so when I start I would always find some time to play with the scripts. How are you coming with this? Let us know if you've run into problems so that we can get you in contact with the appropriate people to get ya fixed up. > How the scripts will be executed in a real game? Thousands of animals > and NPC's would need a lot of computing power. Will everything be done > on the server? Initially we'll do it all on the main server. However, our architecture allows us to establish separate machines for running AI independently of the main server machine. I expect we're going to explore a few different mechanisms for handling this. If you can come up with clever low-processor means for computing the action of, say, a whole herd of sheep, that'd be a really cool thing to have. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Bryce Harrington bryce @ neptune.net bryceharrington @ yahoo.com From admin@rfl.pl Sat Apr 21 02:02:16 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from rfl500.rfl.pl (rfl.pl [212.75.108.54]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0AFCD9DE4 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 02:02:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfl75.rfl.pl ([192.168.1.2] helo=rfl.pl ident=rfl) by rfl500.rfl.pl with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14qtIS-0002yd-00 for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:03:16 +0200 Message-ID: <3AE14CF3.473A970F@rfl.pl> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:03:47 +0200 From: RaFaL Pocztarski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.17 i586) X-Accept-Language: pl, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] AI scripting References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Bryce Harrington wrote: > How are things coming now, btw? Much better but still not working. :) > Well, one of the first really big requirements that needs to be in place > before we can come anywhere close to making predictions about when Mason > will be ready is the STAGE server. I would think it would require the > better part of a year, at least, before STAGE is usable anywhere close > to where Mason will need it. This of course is highly dependant on the > amount of work people can put into the server over that time. The good > news is that right now the team appears to be growing, and individuals > who had run out of time previously, seem to have found extra time to put > into it. So, figure something on the order of a year. Plenty of time, > no? So don't worry if for some months you've got little time; put in > what you can when you can, and we'll get there. :-) Good, so if I start in a month or to I could still contribute. I have to find some time to learn Python and get more fammiliar with C++ in such projects. The MiniForge project sounds very good to me, I have to start with something much easier than Cyphesis and UClient. > > Btw, what scripts would Mason need first? > > Zzorn is a better one to answer this than I, but I would assume that a > safe starting point would be wildlife scripts - deer, flocks of birds, > etc. I suggest this in large part because people have already been > writing these sorts of scripts for Cyphesis and Acorn, and so there is a > wealth of examples there. Do you know some really good Python tutorial? With everything needed for AI in Cyphesis? > One thing that would be a big help, is to look at this page: > http://www.worldforge.org/website/rules/mason/tasks/ > and help Zzorn generate a section to list scripts-needed. I think this > would be a good starting point for the scripting, and would help us > scope out what exactly we're going to need others to help with. I think I could help there but after some time. I have to learn Python basics and get fammiliar with Cyphesis source code to be able to write some simple scripts. > How are you coming with this? Let us know if you've run into problems > so that we can get you in contact with the appropriate people to get ya > fixed up. I can compile everything but when starting uclient I got: DII failed to lookup module Registry Segmentation fault I've no idea what's that. > > How the scripts will be executed in a real game? Thousands of animals > > and NPC's would need a lot of computing power. Will everything be done > > on the server? > > Initially we'll do it all on the main server. However, our architecture > allows us to establish separate machines for running AI independently of > the main server machine. I expect we're going to explore a few > different mechanisms for handling this. If you can come up with clever > low-processor means for computing the action of, say, a whole herd of > sheep, that'd be a really cool thing to have. I think animals in herds could be handled as a whole herd, and only animals in some specific cases whould be handled individually. I mean, that when ships see a wolf then they are running away - there's no need to let every ship think individually if it wants to run or not. There could be some higher `herd consciousness' which would decide what to do (run away, eat grass, seek water, etc.) and individual animals, when in herd, could think only about different details (like which part of grass to eat..). And about AI on different machines, how high the bandwith between those AI machines and the main server shoud be? I mean, would it be possible to use a lot of different machines all over the world as AI servers controling NPC's and animals, the same way as client machines for PC's? -- -- RaFaL Pocztarski -- mailto:admin@rfl.pl -- http://rfl.pl/ -- From sajuma@utu.fi Fri Apr 27 09:36:24 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@needle.mudshark.org Received: from mailhost.utu.fi (mailhost.utu.fi [130.232.1.5]) by needle.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E4D5DA405 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 09:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from glubimox.yok.utu.fi ([130.232.134.107]:1522 "EHLO utu.fi" smtp-auth: TLS-CIPHER: "RC4-MD5 keybits 128 version TLSv1/SSLv3" TLS-CCERT: ) by mailhost.utu.fi with ESMTP id ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:37:07 +0300 Message-ID: <3AE9A0E6.489DE2DA@utu.fi> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:40:06 +0300 From: Sami =?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E4kel=E4?= Organization: - X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@worldforge.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [WF-Scripting] Some thoughts about NPC scripting Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: I'm working on a simple RPG to test some ideas. One thing I want to experiment with is a library for NPC scripting. With the library users should be able to script the NPCs naturally without having to know anything about the implementation. http://users.utu.fi/sajuma/scripting.ps has the current design of the library. At least the syntax will be changed. I need feedback to make the library as easy to use as possible. Please send me some ideas about what is currently hard to understand and how to improve the library. From ojw@iprimus.com.au Thu Oct 18 01:59:45 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@ice.mudshark.org Received: from smtp02.iprimus.net.au (unknown [203.134.65.99]) by ice.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 130411D117; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:59:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iprimus.com.au ([210.50.200.156]) by smtp02.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.3779); Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:59:57 +1000 Message-ID: <3BCE9A0F.9060809@iprimus.com.au> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:59:59 +1000 From: Oliver White User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.3) Gecko/20010801 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: scripting@worldforge.org, general@worldforge.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Oct 2001 08:59:57.0498 (UTC) FILETIME=[42D321A0:01C157B3] Subject: [WF-Scripting] Mason entity database Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Reply-To: scripting@worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: As you all should know, the scripting list is for discussion of ruleset implementation... I've taken on the task of writing a tool for loading data from an Eidetic database, representing Circe game entities, into the Stage server. Having thought about it a little, it occurs to me that our first Circe game setting could be a long way off. With Mason being our most pressing concern, I'm wondering if we could develop something similar for it. What we need is an SQL schema for representing the various entities, and properties thereof, in Mason, and a tool for loading it into stage. All you budding game designers will have something really cool to do - bryce's Eidetic tool will let you forget about the worries of hacking C++ code. Essentially you'll be able to invent new materials, traps, potions and enter them into a central database. People will then be able to load these game entities into their own game world via the loader tool. I guess the first thing I need to do is talk to zzorn about the needs of the database schema, and then have a chat with speedbump about the best way to represent this information via proteus. So you two have some warning, I'll be hunting you on IRC this weekend. ;-) That's the plan. Hope this gives you newbies something to think about. -- Oliver White From mike@utisolutions.com Thu Oct 18 07:13:25 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@ice.mudshark.org Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by ice.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 348C71D247 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opus (user-2inil4f.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.84.143]) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA31042 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:13:42 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mike Taylor" To: Subject: RE: [WF-Scripting] Mason entity database Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:12:20 -0400 Organization: UT&I Solutions, Inc Message-ID: <66BB4BC2AB56F14D87F3439D3936806F025394@oggok.office.utisolutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <3BCE9A0F.9060809@iprimus.com.au> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: If you have any questions about the circe sql structures I created for eidetic, let me know - I can generate any kind of sql script you need. Thanks, Bear Aka Mike Taylor > -----Original Message----- > From: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org [mailto:scripting- > admin@mail.worldforge.org] On Behalf Of Oliver White > Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:00 AM > To: scripting@worldforge.org; general@worldforge.org > Subject: [WF-Scripting] Mason entity database > > As you all should know, the scripting list is for discussion of ruleset > implementation... > > I've taken on the task of writing a tool for loading data from an > Eidetic database, representing Circe game entities, into the Stage > server. Having thought about it a little, it occurs to me that our first > Circe game setting could be a long way off. With Mason being our most > pressing concern, I'm wondering if we could develop something similar > for it. > > What we need is an SQL schema for representing the various entities, and > properties thereof, in Mason, and a tool for loading it into stage. All > you budding game designers will have something really cool to do - > bryce's Eidetic tool will let you forget about the worries of hacking > C++ code. > > Essentially you'll be able to invent new materials, traps, potions and > enter them into a central database. People will then be able to load > these game entities into their own game world via the loader tool. > > I guess the first thing I need to do is talk to zzorn about the needs of > the database schema, and then have a chat with speedbump about the best > way to represent this information via proteus. > > So you two have some warning, I'll be hunting you on IRC this weekend. ;- > ) > > That's the plan. Hope this gives you newbies something to think about. > > -- > Oliver White > > _______________________________________________ > Scripting mailing list > Scripting@mail.worldforge.org > http://mail.worldforge.org/lists/listinfo/scripting From mike@utisolutions.com Thu Oct 18 07:18:05 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@ice.mudshark.org Received: from johnson.mail.mindspring.net (johnson.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.177]) by ice.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3144E1CF3A for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:18:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opus (user-2inil4f.dialup.mindspring.com [165.121.84.143]) by johnson.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA25848 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:18:22 -0400 (EDT) From: "Mike Taylor" To: Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:17:00 -0400 Organization: UT&I Solutions, Inc Message-ID: <66BB4BC2AB56F14D87F3439D3936806F025395@oggok.office.utisolutions.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0000_01C157BE.0736A8F0" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Subject: [WF-Scripting] SQL implementation of entities Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C157BE.0736A8F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If someone can point me to any documentation (even source) for other rule-sets I can do what I did with circe and implement them in eidetic. Thanks, Bear Aka Mike Taylor ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C157BE.0736A8F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

If someone can point me to any documentation (even = source) for other rule-sets I can do what I did with circe and implement them in = eidetic.

 

Thanks,

Bear

 

Aka Mike = Taylor

 

------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C157BE.0736A8F0-- From oliver.white@invensys.com Thu Oct 18 16:18:22 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@ice.mudshark.org Received: from Mel-Inet01.westsig.com.au (unknown [203.5.167.2]) by ice.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8398224873 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 16:18:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: [WF-Scripting] SQL implementation of entities To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org Message-ID: From: oliver.white@invensys.com Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 09:17:47 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@mail.worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: http://www.worldforge.org/website/rules/mason/ "Mike Taylor" To: Sent by: cc: scripting-admin@mail.worl Fax to: dforge.org Subject: [WF-Scripting] SQL implementation of entities 19/10/2001 12:17 am Please respond to scripting If someone can point me to any documentation (even source) for other rule-sets I can do what I did with circe and implement them in eidetic. Thanks, Bear Aka Mike Taylor From ojw@iprimus.com.au Sat Dec 1 18:35:49 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@ice.mudshark.org Received: from smtp01.iprimus.net.au (smtp01.iprimus.net.au [203.134.64.99]) by ice.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C87406DE; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 18:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from iprimus.com.au ([203.134.131.210]) by smtp01.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4617); Sun, 2 Dec 2001 13:37:03 +1100 Message-ID: <3C0993F0.4060904@iprimus.com.au> Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 13:37:36 +1100 From: Oliver White User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.2.1) Gecko/20010901 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 To: general@worldforge.org, scripting@worldforge.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Dec 2001 02:37:04.0037 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A29ED50:01C17ADA] Subject: [WF-Scripting] Eidetic Temlates for Mason Data Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Well finally! I've got my first ever atlas program running. I've discussed the data format for mason with several key developers, and got some excellent advice. I think the way we should do things is to represent each table as a list of atlas objects of type Atlas::Message::Object::MapType. Each object will represent a row in the table, and will be served up by eidetic as an Atlas XML file, to be loaded into Stage on start-up by the rims that need them. Demitar has cited security issues as the reason why we should go for rim based loading as opposed to client connection based loading. So, what do I need from the entity team? Simply come up with an eidetic template to serve XML - a sample atlas map object is in order: Cookie Monster Fur blue 2.91 100000 This would correspond to something like this in SQL: CREATE TABLE FUR_TYPES ( NAME CHAR(50), COLOUR CHAR(50), DENSITY NUMERIC(10,3), HAIRS_PER_CM INTEGER(10) ); This should cover the vast majority of data. Note that in addition to strings, floats and integers, we can also have maps and lists within objects. I don't see how you would need that when representing single tables as atlas objects, but by all means give me a nudge if you need it and I'll come up with some templates. Sorry this has taken so long, it's certainly been a learning experience for me, and at the very least I've found a few bugs in atlas which Al Riddoch has fix up for me. From here I'll be working with the stage team to develop the RIMs to load this data and run a game world. Cheers! -- Oli White From bryce@neptune.net Sat Dec 1 23:46:49 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@ice.mudshark.org Received: from pulsar.neptune.net (pulsar.neptune.net [204.107.103.12]) by ice.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5F841C28; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 23:46:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (bryce@localhost) by pulsar.neptune.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id fB27m9a17914; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 23:48:09 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: pulsar.neptune.net: bryce owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 23:48:09 -0800 (PST) From: Bryce Harrington To: Cc: In-Reply-To: <3C0993F0.4060904@iprimus.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [WF-Scripting] Re: [WF-General] Eidetic Temlates for Mason Data Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Oliver White wrote: > Well finally! I've got my first ever atlas program running. Congrats! > So, what do I need from the entity team? Simply come up with an eidetic > template to serve XML - a sample atlas map object is in order: > > > Cookie Monster Fur > blue > 2.91 > 100000 > Looks like, I suspect: [% foreach x %] <[% x.type %] name="[% x.descriptor %]">[% x.value %] [% end %] > This would correspond to something like this in SQL: > > CREATE TABLE FUR_TYPES > ( > NAME CHAR(50), > COLOUR CHAR(50), > DENSITY NUMERIC(10,3), > HAIRS_PER_CM INTEGER(10) > ); > > This should cover the vast majority of data. Note that in addition to > strings, floats and integers, we can also have maps and lists within > objects. I don't see how you would need that when representing single > tables as atlas objects, but by all means give me a nudge if you need it > and I'll come up with some templates. I am guessing that with mason we may not need anything with more than the basic types, but that'd only be a guess. It feels like we're "missing some syntax" here, but I'll be happy if this is all we need to know. > From here I'll be working with the stage team to develop the RIMs to > load this data and run a game world. > Cyphesis-C++ is probably the more logical place to start, but ok. Thanks again, cy! Bryce From ojw@iprimus.com.au Sat Dec 22 19:55:44 2001 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@ice.mudshark.org Received: from smtp02.iprimus.net.au (smtp02.iprimus.net.au [203.134.65.99]) by ice.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43A7445DA1; Sat, 22 Dec 2001 19:55:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from there ([203.134.132.188]) by smtp02.iprimus.net.au with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.4617); Sun, 23 Dec 2001 14:57:45 +1100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" From: Oliver White To: general@worldforge.org, scripting@worldforge.org Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2001 14:58:51 +1100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.1] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Dec 2001 03:57:45.0955 (UTC) FILETIME=[FAD8BB30:01C18B65] Subject: [WF-Scripting] Thoughts on a transformation RIM. Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.6 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Well I've finally got a day to myself, and I thought I might share some ideas I have about implementing Mason and future games in Stage. I'm not as active in mason game design as some, but I understand that a major theme of the game is to be able to change the world around you. I'd like to focus on this idea of transformation as a basis for a ruleset module for stage. Change is the one thing that makes life interesting, and so too will it be the feature of any game that is interesting in the long term. I guess the philosophy goes that you never cross the same river twice. In stage terms, transformation is something that changes entities into one or more other entities, with properties differing from the original entity. Let's take one scenario: ===================================================== THE GEMCUTTER Vanitus is a gemcutter character played by Ralph. The character entity representing Vanitus has a bit of data associated with it, including a number of skills taken from the Circe ruleset. One of these skills, funnily enough, is a gem-cutting skill. Vanitus has come into contact with a shady character called Devnion and has aquired an uncut diamond. Devnion has offered Vanitus a cut (scuse the pun) of the profits, in exchange for an application of his skill. Vanitus grabs his gem cutting tools and sets to work creating a fine, faceted stone. Ralph peforms a series of mouseclicks in Morgate, which sends an atlas operation to the server like so: SKILL_APPLICATION("GEMCUTTING", "ENTITY-020349", "LOW"); The server then performs the following actions: 1) Checks that GEMCUTTING is applicable to the entity specified. 2) Checks that Vanitus is in posession of the correct tools. 3) Ties the Vanitus entity to the activity of gemcutting for 3 hours, the lowest period of time to take to perform this gem cutting (he's a bit wary of this Devnion and just wants to get his money and be rid of the suspect). Vanitus will stay cutting the gem until this time is up, or Ralph gets bored and sends a new action to the server (or possibly until he is attacked and his server-side reflexes take over). 4) Given the time period and Vanitus' skill level, the rough gem entity is replaced by a large, low quality gem entity. A fight then ensues, over the quality of the gem and Vanitus is forced to flee in fear of the law. Squatters take over the building and bury the corpse of Devnion in the cellar. ===================================================== This explains a little of how player interaction can change a world. Circumstance can also cause transformation - fire can change wood into charcoal. Natural forces like fire, weathering and so forth can be thought of as an application of a skill of the world itself. So, when a mage casts a fireball at a gemcutter, after discovering he stole and damaged a magic stone of hers, a fire force is applied to a nearby tree. The server then does the following: 1) Sends an atlas object to the transformation RIM - FORCE_APPLICATION("FIRE", "ENTITY-004991", "HIGH); 2) The rim checks the tree for the opposing element - water. 3) The tree is dry as tinder, and it's entity is gradually replaced by a pile of charcoal over the next 2 hours. Vanitus escapes with singed hair and runs into the forest ===================================================== Now, not all skills and forces will involve transformation, but we want to encapsulate transformation and reuse it in other game systems. Obviously we need to dispatch only certain force and skill application entities to the transformation RIM, so pegasus needs to make sure they get to the right destination. The rim is responsible for taking the application request and determining the outcome. This may involve determining the material and shape of the entity in question, the physical environment of the entity, and the qualities of the applicant character or world embodyment. That covers the scope of the RIM. There are a couple of design considerations for pegasus as a whole, though. I'm suggesting that RIMs collaborate by putting atlas operations on the in-queue of other RIMs. This may not be the most efficient way to handle internal server communications. If you have any other ideas about optimising internal communications, let us know. Pegasus' dispatch mechanism may also need some work. The transformation RIM will use data extracted from Eidetic as XML/Atlas files, to describe skills, materials and shapes. Some of this data may need to be shared with other rims, so there are still future considerations for our data model. I've done only a little preliminary work in this direction, as I've discussed with bryce. Thats about all I've got so far, but it's a good step towards implementing a full-featured RPG engine. I'd recommend folks think about what other encapsulations might be useful. Thanks for listening, Oliver White From mike@utisolutions.com Tue Jan 14 19:17:46 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: scripting@ice.mudshark.org Received: from smtp.comcast.net (smtp.comcast.net [24.153.64.2]) by ice.mudshark.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF432303BF; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 19:17:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from opus (pcp109874pcs.wchryh01.nj.comcast.net [68.45.81.20]) by mtaout05.icomcast.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.07 (built Nov 25 2002)) with ESMTP id <0H8Q006Y3JYGF3@mtaout05.icomcast.net>; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:20:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 22:20:40 -0500 From: Mike Taylor To: general@worldforge.org, infra@worldforge.org, servers@worldforge.org, world@worldforge.org, scripting@worldforge.org, rules@worldforge.org, protocols@worldforge.org Message-id: <66BB4BC2AB56F14D87F3439D3936806F02CB49@oggok.office.utisolutions.com> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Subject: [WF-Scripting] Project Info and Status update Sender: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org Errors-To: scripting-admin@mail.worldforge.org X-BeenThere: scripting@mail.worldforge.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.11 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: scripting@worldforge.org List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Worldforge rules implementation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Can everyone email me with the latest projects you are working on and their status if you're the coordinator. Include team members if possible and include idle, abandoned and plain ol' gossip items! bear