[WF-General] Rumors of my death have been greatly exagerated (was All dead, all dead)

Jason Oppel jason at oppel.net
Mon Oct 16 17:02:12 PDT 2000


On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, Paulus Esterhazy wrote:
>
> But unfortunately you didn't. Uclient, IMO the most
> important part of the project, isn't making any progess.

I would hazard a guess that you're not subscribed to the CVS mailing
list?  Keep in mind not everything gets posted to the General mailing
list that's being worked on.  That's why we have seperate lists! :) If you
are only subscribed to the General mailing list then you are only seeing
about 10-20% of the activity that's going on with the project..  Uclient
has been coming along quite nicely as of late.  Why just noticed that
Uclient now connects with Cyphesis C++, it uses the new libAtlas and snow
has been implemented.  I'll grant you that's not a typical day but the
progress has been steady (if not brisk).

Acorn 0.2RC1 is now  and has some really cool (new) things.  I would
invite you to check out this Acorn screenshot of the newest release
candidate:

http://www.worldforge.org/images/screenshots/market.jpg

I'd also like to note that STAGE is has had quite a bit coding done 
(gasp!) and cvs commits coming quite regularly.

> There ARE server(s) that run, but they don't do much
> that a very simple irc server couldn't do. There's a
> zillion of projects on top of the worldforge idea, but
> none of them has more than a few lines of code done.

I can't speak with the other areas but I know that Cyphesis has undergone
lots of changes even in the past month or two and lots more are in the
future.  Some new things in cyphesis just in the past month or so have
been new skeleton behaviours, bug squashing, fire and a new
major optimisation effort has begun!  Lots of good stuff going on and
there is a lot that I didn't mention..

> No client can easily connect to a server, and there's

Uclient connects quite easily to a running cyphesis server...

> no functional map editor. 

This is a problem that really needs to be solved some time soon but a map
format has to be settled on before we create a map editor so slamming us
on both counts really isn't fair is it?  Ok, so it is... hehe :)

> There are drafts for map file
> formats, but nothing's concrete, all effort is spread
> among a dozen of undoubtably highly skilled people,
> that aren't really "on fire" about the project any more.
> And no matter how you put it, there is no in any way
> playable game done at all.

I would invite you to check out the Acorn tarballs and play with them and
see the progress that has been made.  It's quite substantial IMHO...

> 
> Additionally team members are dying away quickly.

Actually I'm seeing just the opposite of this.  Recently we've had a bunch
of newbies coming on IRC interested in helping (and some of them
have stuck around and are contributing).  We've had some losses but I
think this influx of newbies is at least offsetting any losses we've had.

> interest, and that's what I've seen here. The most
> visible thing is that mailing list traffic has decreased
> steadily and there hasn't been an announcement
> of a new version of some part of the project for
> a while. And the website or the CVS are down
> regularly.
>

The web site and CVS being down kinda contradicts your statement that
we've put enough work/thought into infrastructure doesn't it?  While
services going down is frustrating please keep in mind that people are
working to make sure these issues don't come up again or are at least
minimized when they do.  I used to for an ISP many moons ago and I tend to
find that for some reason these outtages end to come in spurts.  I'll bet
we're about due for a good long period of uptime on all of our services
soon.  I really wish you could see all the great work that's going in to
infrastructure by Chord, kosh mithro and others (sorry if I forgot to
mention anyone!).  All I can say is that the next few months look for alot
of great infrastructure changes that these people will be implementing...

> ever seen anyone doing as much for a project (judging
> from many long high-quality posts e.g.) as Bryce does.
> 

Bryce is good at that...  I think that's why we keep him around, to keep
our mailing list numbers up. ;)
/me tweaks Bryce's nose ;b

In summary I'd just like to say that just because you don't see many posts
going to general@ that doesn't mean nothing is going on.  There is so
much work going on that you aren't seeing.  To really feel the pulse of
this group you'd have to at least subscribed be to all the lists.  Also
there's lots of activity that goes on in IRC that is seldom seen here on
the lists.  WF has been bubbling under with activity...  It's impossible
to stay tuned in to all the developments that are going in on WF no matter
how much or where you lurk so please keep that in mind before declaring us
stone dead. ;)

This thread kinda reminds me of the "Bring out your Dead!" scene in Monty
Python.

"I've got a dead on here for you."
"I'm not dead!  I'm not dead yet!"
"Yes you are you'll be stone dead in a moment!"

As most of us know the guy who isn't dead gets whacked on the head and
meets an untimely death.  I would ask people to be mindful that
predictions of doom and gloom have a signifigant effect of sucking moral
out the troops.  Obviously I'm not against negative posts for they
can be very healthy and even sometimes necessary.  Anyhow we should be
very careful when something is dead is dead lest it become a self
fullfilling prophecy.  At least check our pulse properly before declaring
us dead (yes I know we're not the most pleasent patients). :)

I find that most of the people who do alot of the work in WF generally
march forward in their respective project without posting very often to
the lists (esp general@) and without much fan fare.  I suppose this is a
bit of a wake up call to us that perhaps we *should* start posting more 
accomplishments to the list if for no other reason than to motivate others
who are involved.  Of course a desirable side effect is that ppl casually
following the project get clued in too. :) This desire of greater activity
on the lists is however tempered by the fact that I know some people have
an extreme distaste for a lot of email.  What do you guys think?  It is 
your inbox after all.  My inbox can take the stress how about yours? :)

-Jason <Pato>

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