From erik.hjortsberg at iteam.se Mon Mar 3 08:09:07 2008 From: erik.hjortsberg at iteam.se (Erik Hjortsberg) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:09:07 +0100 Subject: [WF-Infra] svn and mailing lists down In-Reply-To: References: <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012DFE292D@brun.iteam.local> <4b05edd10802041010w32e15358v285c894164fd0370@mail.gmail.com> <47BB5F7E.7060803@pnxs.de> <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012FBEEE06@brun.iteam.local> Message-ID: <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012FBEF04B@brun.iteam.local> Git is indeed interesting. Regarding the problems you mentioned, the requirement of cygwin isn't anything that would be a large problem since 1) no one is actively developing on Windows 2) you need cygwin or msys or similar anyways to compile (that's how I did the latest Ember release (which wasn't a walk in the park compared to the ease of using packages and a sane build environment by default in linux)). I don't think the size would be a problem either since just the debug files generated by a build of Ember are larger than the combined source repository. What I do worry about is the state of useful gui tools, or the integration in IDE's such as Eclipse, Anjuta or KDevelop (or VIM and Emacs for those so inclined). While using command line tools is certainly possible, it would be just another barrier for entry for people wanting to contribute to the project, and anything that would make the commit process more convoluted than it needs to be would be bad. But I don't know the state of GIT tools so I really cannot say. Anyways, I think that moving from cvs to svn would be our first priority in either case. Balinor: what's your take? /erik -----Original Message----- From: drsgoodall at googlemail.com [mailto:drsgoodall at googlemail.com] On Behalf Of Simon Goodall Sent: den 3 mars 2008 16:55 To: Erik Hjortsberg Cc: Alistair Riddoch; balinor at yomu.de; Kai Blin; jack at mudshark.org; Worldforge Infra team Subject: Re: svn and mailing lists down Regarding the code repository change, I've been using git for a number of small projects and I am quite impressed by it. The main benefit for me as a user is the ability to make commits and view repo history without an active internet connection. A lot of my development time is now when I'm commuting to/from work on the train and this feature is invaluable. There are a few problems with using git which may or may not be addressed with other distributed systems and/or time. These will mostly effect new users trying out the code rather than regular developers; * requires cygwin on windows, * GUI tools not very mature, * no partial check out (you check out everything, however a large repo could be split up into lots of smaller ones, git does have some kind of hierarchy setup) * Steeper learning curve than cvs/svn, although you only need to know a few commands for day-to-day usage. Other points * Git can emulate a cvs server * existing tools to import existing cvs/svn repos * git can talk to a svn server quite easily (I'm currently doing this with some non-wf projects), * git can talk to a cvs server not so easily (I'm currently doing this with my wf projects) * distributed system means lots of local backups (although no excuse for not having a main repo backup). This also reduces the project dependence on the single cvs server always being available. * Some big projects already use it, e.g. kernel, kde I think it is certainly worth looking at git and similar before changing the code repo, but at the very least moving to subversion would make it easier for my local git conversions to stay in sync. Has anyone else had experience with distributed source control systems? Simon On 21/02/2008, Erik Hjortsberg wrote: > Hi, glad to hear from you! > > Sorry to hear about your problems. > In general I think we need better information on how the infrastructure is arranged. Things like what servers there are, who's responsible for them, how to contact the person responsible, what's hosted on them, how they are backed up, how they are hosted and so on. I've added information for amber over at http://wiki.worldforge.org/wiki/Coordinators#Hosts, I think it would be great if the people responsible for the other servers would do the same. I would feel much better knowing that crucial parts of the infrastructure such as the code and media repository are properly backed up, and that there's a clear way of getting access to it should anything happen to the person responsible for hosting it. > > Jayr have been restructuring the svn repository so that all original assets are stored in /art, while end user assets are stored in 3d_objects and 3d_skeletons. The idea behind this is that developers that want to get the media needed for client development only should need to get the two latter directories, while artists interested in working with the media can get the art directory too. > One advantage of this is that we can have heavier art files in the repository without burdening client developers with these files. The size of media source files these days can be quite large. For example, we have some MudBox source files which can be > 100Mb. > So before we commit such large files to the repository I wanted to check with you how it would handle it. Is there enough space? Enough bandwidth? Will subversion store updates as delta or as complete copies? > > Regarding the switch from cvs to svn for the code repository: that would be very much welcome. What happened with the previous effort? > > Development of Ember continues and I regularly update the screenshot section over at http://amber.worldforge.org/ember/screenshots/ > I've just implemented a new foliage and undervegetation system which makes the world look a little more alive. I have to fiddle a little bit with the colouring though. > > Sincerely Erik > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Philipp [mailto:balinor at pnxs.de] > Sent: den 20 februari 2008 00:00 > To: Alistair Riddoch; Erik Hjortsberg > Cc: Kai Blin; Simon Goodall; jack at mudshark.org; Worldforge Infra team > Subject: Re: svn and mailing lists down > > Hello my dear WorldForgers, > > Erik Hjortsberg wrote (by PM): > | Hi, I've been trying to get ahold of you regarding some problems with > | the worldforge subversion. [...] Hopefully this address is more valid. > > Thank you Erik, good job in tracking me down. > > First of all, everybody, I want to sincerely apologize for dropping off > the face of the earth like this. > > A few months ago, my old balinor at ... account started to be so completely > flooded with spam, that I just completely gave up on it, including any > messages arriving on the WF MLs. > Combined with lots of crazyness in RL (hint: fork(2)) this means I > haven't even managed to create a new account and resubscribe. Obviously > I didn't think that you guys had no other way to contact me in emergencies. > > Again, I'm really sorry. > Starting from now, please direct mail to me to > balinor that?tsign yomu d?t de > and CC me personally on anything that's urgent. > > Eric, about the other mail you sent a few months ago - I just found > that, let me get back to you on that. > > > Alistair Riddoch wrote: > > On 04/02/2008, Erik Hjortsberg wrote: > > > >> It seems like a couple of different infra components have collapsed recently. > >> > >> 1) The svn repository has run out of disc space, resulting in error messages when > >> trying to access it. I've tried contacting Balinor through his email to no avail. > >> > this was related to a _different_ (my) mail server _dropping_ so much > spam that the log files alone grew to 850 MB, draining apache's root > partition (although the worldforge subversion partition was fine). > crazy times... > I fixed this after a few days. > > > I have found Balinor sometimes hard to get hold of, though on at least > > one occasion I discovered that he was connected to irc, but not in any > > channels. > I was, sorry. I'm afraid I'm still not much of an IRC person, but will > make an effort to show up more regularly. > I'll set my xchat to autoconnect to irc.wf again, so i'm around when > that's running, atleast. > > >> Altogether I'm a bit concerned about how the media svn repository is handled. Where is > >> it hosted? Are there regular backups? Who's to contact if something breaks etc.. > > > > I have no idea, except that as far as I am aware no one is involved in > > the hosting except Balinor. > > > Yes, I am the only admin of that box, with two trusted friends roughly > knowing their way around and having physical access to reduce the bus > factor. > > There are regular incremental on-machine backups (different filesystem, > mirrored to two discs) and irregular off-site backups done manually by me. > Back when I set up the box, bear and AFAIK anubis (?) requested a > "wfbackup" account to regularly rsync the backup dir, but so much has > changed since then in the setup that this probably is not working anymore. > > >> On a good note, I've done some nice development recently with a new imposter > >> system. I've written about it on my development blog and added some screen shots to > >> amber. > >> > let me just take a second here to say: once again it's just great to > come back here and see you guys rocking so hard. > > > Finally, Jack Cummings wrote: > > This is a good reason to switch to a DVCS... well sync'ed repositories are > > idempotent, so backup becomes moot. > > > I'm open to that idea, altough with a repos the size of wf-media, this > might start sucking pretty quickly (diskspace- and performance-wise). > Fell free to start playing with different DVCSes against my server, and > let's discuss the results. > However, before really implementing something like this, I'd really like > to get a clean migration of coders@ away from CVS underway. > > Good night all, keep forging, > Balinor > > From jack at mudshark.org Mon Mar 3 08:48:56 2008 From: jack at mudshark.org (Jack Cummings) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 08:48:56 -0800 Subject: [WF-Infra] svn and mailing lists down In-Reply-To: References: <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012DFE292D@brun.iteam.local> <4b05edd10802041010w32e15358v285c894164fd0370@mail.gmail.com> <47BB5F7E.7060803@pnxs.de> <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012FBEEE06@brun.iteam.local> Message-ID: <20080303164856.GB22285@ice.mudshark.org> On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 03:54:36PM +0000, Simon Goodall wrote: > Has anyone else had experience with distributed source control systems? Yeah. I've got a rather huge monotone setup (10s of gigabytes, thousands of branches, a half dozen servers), but I've been through the gamut of DVCSes. The question shouldn't be "should we switch to a DVC", but "which DVCS should we switch to?" Most of the current herd of DVCes all have the same basic functionality: - disconnected operation - commit-before-merge (ESR started a good manual on this, I'll dig up the URL to his hg repository if anyone is interested) Anyhow, I'm willing to: - set up a cluster of monotone netsync servers - set up a bittorrent tracker for monotone database snapshots - hang out in #lounge and answer monotone questions Cheers, --Jack -- Jack (John) Cummings http://mudshark.org/ PGP fingerprint: F18B 13A3 6D06 D48A 598D 42EA 3D53 BDC8 7917 F802 From alriddoch at googlemail.com Mon Mar 3 09:17:23 2008 From: alriddoch at googlemail.com (Alistair Riddoch) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:17:23 +0000 Subject: [WF-Infra] svn and mailing lists down In-Reply-To: <20080303164856.GB22285@ice.mudshark.org> References: <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012DFE292D@brun.iteam.local> <4b05edd10802041010w32e15358v285c894164fd0370@mail.gmail.com> <47BB5F7E.7060803@pnxs.de> <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012FBEEE06@brun.iteam.local> <20080303164856.GB22285@ice.mudshark.org> Message-ID: <4b05edd10803030917l33c6e23exd445e510e2ce37aa@mail.gmail.com> I will admit that I have not had the time to look into things in great depth, but the DVCS that made the strongest impression on me was mercurial. I found it very easy to adapt to, and the tools available were able to preserve the history of cyphesis from cvs in a test migration. Al On 03/03/2008, Jack Cummings wrote: > On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 03:54:36PM +0000, Simon Goodall wrote: > > > Has anyone else had experience with distributed source control systems? > > > Yeah. I've got a rather huge monotone setup (10s of gigabytes, thousands of > branches, a half dozen servers), but I've been through the gamut of DVCSes. > > The question shouldn't be "should we switch to a DVC", but "which DVCS > should we switch to?" > > Most of the current herd of DVCes all have the same basic functionality: > - disconnected operation > - commit-before-merge > > (ESR started a good manual on this, I'll dig up the URL to his hg repository if > anyone is interested) > > Anyhow, I'm willing to: > - set up a cluster of monotone netsync servers > - set up a bittorrent tracker for monotone database snapshots > - hang out in #lounge and answer monotone questions > > Cheers, > > > --Jack > > -- > Jack (John) Cummings http://mudshark.org/ > PGP fingerprint: F18B 13A3 6D06 D48A 598D 42EA 3D53 BDC8 7917 F802 > -- Alistair Riddoch alriddoch at googlemail.com http://alistairriddoch.org/ From jack at mudshark.org Mon Mar 3 10:06:01 2008 From: jack at mudshark.org (Jack Cummings) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:06:01 -0800 Subject: [WF-Infra] svn and mailing lists down In-Reply-To: <4b05edd10803030917l33c6e23exd445e510e2ce37aa@mail.gmail.com> References: <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012DFE292D@brun.iteam.local> <4b05edd10802041010w32e15358v285c894164fd0370@mail.gmail.com> <47BB5F7E.7060803@pnxs.de> <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012FBEEE06@brun.iteam.local> <20080303164856.GB22285@ice.mudshark.org> <4b05edd10803030917l33c6e23exd445e510e2ce37aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080303180601.GC22285@ice.mudshark.org> On Mon, Mar 03, 2008 at 05:17:23PM +0000, Alistair Riddoch wrote: > I will admit that I have not had the time to look into things in great > depth, but the DVCS that made the strongest impression on me was > mercurial. I found it very easy to adapt to, and the tools available > were able to preserve the history of cyphesis from cvs in a test > migration. I think all of the DVCes support migration from CVS, and I'm sure that they all can be kept in sync with tailor. I believe that the current batch of DVCS offerings (bzr, hg, mtn, git, darcs) are functionally equivalent for most software development. Since there isn't really a lot of functional difference, there isn't really a good way to choose between them. Anyways, I'm currently using monotone[0] to backup the mailing list stuff, so extending the monotone metaserver to serve a few public branches isn't much work. --Jack [0] I've got lots, and lots of stuff in monotone: ~2 million files, ~1k branches, ~20GiB, 6 servers, 2 clusters. -- Jack (John) Cummings http://mudshark.org/ PGP fingerprint: F18B 13A3 6D06 D48A 598D 42EA 3D53 BDC8 7917 F802 From blin at gmx.net Mon Mar 3 12:57:56 2008 From: blin at gmx.net (Kai Blin) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 21:57:56 +0100 Subject: [WF-Infra] svn and mailing lists down In-Reply-To: References: <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012DFE292D@brun.iteam.local> <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012FBEEE06@brun.iteam.local> Message-ID: <200803032158.02916.blin@gmx.net> On Monday 03 March 2008 16:54:36 Simon Goodall wrote: > I think it is certainly worth looking at git and similar before > changing the code repo, but at the very least moving to subversion > would make it easier for my local git conversions to stay in sync. > Has anyone else had experience with distributed source control systems? I'm open to whatever, but I've been using git since Wine switched to it in 2005 and for Samba since last summer. I'm pretty sure other DCVSes work similar, though. +1 on getting rid of CVS, in any case. Kai -- Kai Blin WorldForge developer http://www.worldforge.org/ Wine developer http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin Samba team member http://www.samba.org/samba/team/ -- Will code for cotton. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://mail.worldforge.org/pipermail/infra/attachments/20080303/314b807b/attachment.bin From erik.hjortsberg at iteam.se Tue Mar 4 00:03:06 2008 From: erik.hjortsberg at iteam.se (Erik Hjortsberg) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:03:06 +0100 Subject: [WF-Infra] brenda logs Message-ID: <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A012FC2B610@brun.iteam.local> It seems as if brenda only shows logs from last year, as seen here: http://brenda.worldforge.org/?channel=coders Anyone knows what's up with that? /erik From jack at mudshark.org Tue Mar 4 16:30:41 2008 From: jack at mudshark.org (Jack Cummings) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 16:30:41 -0800 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping Message-ID: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> I'm taking a whack at importing the CVS server into monotone, and I've come up with the following branch name to module mappings (the branch names are prefixed with org.worldforge.). Am I missing anything? Have I got some antiques that should be tossed? --Jack client.sear forge/clients/sear client.ember forge/clients/ember client.equator forge/clients/equator client.apogee forge/clients/apogee client.silence forge/clients/silence client.uclient forge/clients/uclient client.frost forge/clients/frost client.mist forge/clients/mist client.morgate forge/clients/morgate client.anvil forge/clients/anvil client.xclient forge/clients/xclient client.geosil forge/clients/geosil server.cyphesis forge/servers/cyphesis-C++ server.indri forge/servers/indri server.brokerworld forge/servers/brokerworld server.chatworld forge/servers/chatworld server.pangea forge/servers/pangea server.stage forge/servers/stage server.qserver2 forge/servers/qserver2 server.backstage forge/servers/backstage lib.atlas-c++ forge/libs/Atlas-C++ lib.atlas-java forge/libs/Atlas-Java lib.eris forge/libs/eris lib.mercator forge/libs/mercator lib.sage forge/libs/sage lib.skstream forge/libs/skstream lib.varconf forge/libs/varconf lib.wfmath forge/libs/wfmath lib.coal forge/libs/coal lib.janus forge/libs/janus lib.meadow forge/libs/meadow lib.wftk forge/libs/wftk proto.atlas forge/protocols/atlas forge.ptah forge/tools/Ptah forge.eidetic forge/tools/eidetic forge.pyedit forge/clients/pyedit forge.plantedit forge/tools/plantedit tools.metaserver metaserver tools.entityforge forge/tools/entityforge tools.wfut forge/tools/WFUT tools.herbiforge forge/tools/herbiforge -- Jack (John) Cummings http://mudshark.org/ PGP fingerprint: F18B 13A3 6D06 D48A 598D 42EA 3D53 BDC8 7917 F802 From erik.hjortsberg at iteam.se Wed Mar 5 02:51:19 2008 From: erik.hjortsberg at iteam.se (Erik Hjortsberg) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:51:19 +0100 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping In-Reply-To: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> Message-ID: <93BE8A5F0814E64D8CEDC34CA57B764A01311B6B3C@brun.iteam.local> Apart from missing libwfut (lib.wfut or lib.libwfut?) it looks good. /erik -----Original Message----- From: infra-bounces at mail.worldforge.org [mailto:infra-bounces at mail.worldforge.org] On Behalf Of Jack Cummings Sent: den 5 mars 2008 01:31 To: infra at ice.mudshark.org Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping I'm taking a whack at importing the CVS server into monotone, and I've come up with the following branch name to module mappings (the branch names are prefixed with org.worldforge.). Am I missing anything? Have I got some antiques that should be tossed? --Jack client.sear forge/clients/sear client.ember forge/clients/ember client.equator forge/clients/equator client.apogee forge/clients/apogee client.silence forge/clients/silence client.uclient forge/clients/uclient client.frost forge/clients/frost client.mist forge/clients/mist client.morgate forge/clients/morgate client.anvil forge/clients/anvil client.xclient forge/clients/xclient client.geosil forge/clients/geosil server.cyphesis forge/servers/cyphesis-C++ server.indri forge/servers/indri server.brokerworld forge/servers/brokerworld server.chatworld forge/servers/chatworld server.pangea forge/servers/pangea server.stage forge/servers/stage server.qserver2 forge/servers/qserver2 server.backstage forge/servers/backstage lib.atlas-c++ forge/libs/Atlas-C++ lib.atlas-java forge/libs/Atlas-Java lib.eris forge/libs/eris lib.mercator forge/libs/mercator lib.sage forge/libs/sage lib.skstream forge/libs/skstream lib.varconf forge/libs/varconf lib.wfmath forge/libs/wfmath lib.coal forge/libs/coal lib.janus forge/libs/janus lib.meadow forge/libs/meadow lib.wftk forge/libs/wftk proto.atlas forge/protocols/atlas forge.ptah forge/tools/Ptah forge.eidetic forge/tools/eidetic forge.pyedit forge/clients/pyedit forge.plantedit forge/tools/plantedit tools.metaserver metaserver tools.entityforge forge/tools/entityforge tools.wfut forge/tools/WFUT tools.herbiforge forge/tools/herbiforge -- Jack (John) Cummings http://mudshark.org/ PGP fingerprint: F18B 13A3 6D06 D48A 598D 42EA 3D53 BDC8 7917 F802 _______________________________________________ Infra mailing list Infra at mail.worldforge.org http://mail.worldforge.org/lists/listinfo/infra From demitar at worldforge.org Wed Mar 5 12:52:16 2008 From: demitar at worldforge.org (Anders Petersson) Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:52:16 +0100 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping In-Reply-To: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> Message-ID: <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> tis 2008-03-04 klockan 16:30 -0800 skrev Jack Cummings: > I'm taking a whack at importing the CVS server into monotone, and I've come up > with the following branch name to module mappings (the branch names are > prefixed with org.worldforge.). Am I missing anything? Have I got some antiques > that should be tossed? I've taken a whack at weeding out oldies, if you disagree (or just think they should be under version control but perhaps folded from the main list) please do comment. The ones I'd argue are so old we probably only want to import them on request (to avoid confusing people) are: client.mist forge/clients/mist client.morgate forge/clients/morgate client.anvil forge/clients/anvil client.xclient forge/clients/xclient client.geosil forge/clients/geosil server.brokerworld forge/servers/brokerworld server.chatworld forge/servers/chatworld server.pangea forge/servers/pangea server.stage forge/servers/stage server.qserver2 forge/servers/qserver2 server.backstage forge/servers/backstage lib.coal forge/libs/coal lib.janus forge/libs/janus lib.meadow forge/libs/meadow lib.wftk forge/libs/wftk forge.ptah forge/tools/Ptah forge.eidetic forge/tools/eidetic forge.pyedit forge/clients/pyedit forge.plantedit forge/tools/plantedit A few are old, but may still be in good enough shape or of enough interest to keep around: client.uclient forge/clients/uclient client.frost forge/clients/frost lib.atlas-java forge/libs/Atlas-Java And there are a couple I couldn't really tell if they should be kept or dropped, which means they most likely should be kept. client.equator forge/clients/equator client.apogee forge/clients/apogee server.indri forge/servers/indri tools.entityforge forge/tools/entityforge tools.herbiforge forge/tools/herbiforge This would leave the list of definite keepers as (plus lib.wfut as erik mentioned): client.sear forge/clients/sear client.ember forge/clients/ember client.silence forge/clients/silence server.cyphesis forge/servers/cyphesis-C++ lib.atlas-c++ forge/libs/Atlas-C++ lib.eris forge/libs/eris lib.mercator forge/libs/mercator lib.sage forge/libs/sage lib.skstream forge/libs/skstream lib.varconf forge/libs/varconf lib.wfmath forge/libs/wfmath proto.atlas forge/protocols/atlas tools.metaserver metaserver tools.wfut forge/tools/WFUT For consistency we may want to rename tools to tool. /Anders From jack at mudshark.org Wed Mar 5 13:16:08 2008 From: jack at mudshark.org (Jack Cummings) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 13:16:08 -0800 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping and test.. In-Reply-To: <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> Message-ID: <20080305211608.GO22285@ice.mudshark.org> On Wed, Mar 05, 2008 at 09:52:16PM +0100, Anders Petersson wrote: > > I'm taking a whack at importing the CVS server into monotone, and I've come up > > with the following branch name to module mappings (the branch names are > > prefixed with org.worldforge.). Am I missing anything? Have I got some antiques > > that should be tossed? > I've taken a whack at weeding out oldies, if you disagree (or just think > they should be under version control but perhaps folded from the main > list) please do comment. We can import on a per-module basis, so it's actually not a big deal to import them later. I've got the list as: client.sear forge/clients/sear client.ember forge/clients/ember client.silence forge/clients/silence server.cyphesis forge/servers/cyphesis-C++ lib.atlas-c++ forge/libs/Atlas-C++ lib.eris forge/libs/eris lib.mercator forge/libs/mercator lib.sage forge/libs/sage lib.skstream forge/libs/skstream lib.varconf forge/libs/varconf lib.wfmath forge/libs/wfmath lib.libwfut forge/libs/libwfut proto.atlas forge/protocols/atlas tool.metaserver metaserver tool.wfut forge/tools/WFUT client.equator forge/clients/equator client.apogee forge/clients/apogee server.indri forge/servers/indri tool.entityforge forge/tools/entityforge tool.herbiforge forge/tools/herbiforge client.uclient forge/clients/uclient client.frost forge/clients/frost lib.atlas-java forge/libs/Atlas-Java My eval plan is: - import the above CVS modules as monotone branches (prepending org.worldforge) - cluster and serve the branches on blue.worldforge.org - post a note on how to clone the repositories When resistance is quashed: - put the CVS server in RO mode - rsync the CVSROOT - re-import the modules - update the wiki - monotone cheat sheet - how to pull the database - how to share your changes - how to get write access - useful tools - monotone viz - eventually kill the CVS server Maybe: - evaluate setting up viewmtn, tracmtn, cia, email notifications, and buildbots for the branches. - evaluate "merge_into_dir"ing dependencies into their branches This will probably take a few days to get done, and I'll need read access to the current CVSROOT. --Jack -- Jack (John) Cummings http://mudshark.org/ PGP fingerprint: F18B 13A3 6D06 D48A 598D 42EA 3D53 BDC8 7917 F802 From blin at gmx.net Wed Mar 5 23:29:53 2008 From: blin at gmx.net (Kai Blin) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:29:53 +0100 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping In-Reply-To: <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> Message-ID: <200803060830.01103.blin@gmx.net> On Wednesday 05 March 2008 21:52:16 Anders Petersson wrote: > lib.wftk forge/libs/wftk [...] > A few are old, but may still be in good enough shape or of enough > interest to keep around: > > client.uclient forge/clients/uclient uclient uses wftk. Either you toss both or keep both. Otherwise this looks reasonable. Cheers, Kai -- Kai Blin WorldForge developer http://www.worldforge.org/ Wine developer http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin Samba team member http://www.samba.org/samba/team/ -- Will code for cotton. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. Url : http://mail.worldforge.org/pipermail/infra/attachments/20080306/f67ba031/attachment.bin From mithro at mithis.net Thu Mar 6 02:40:14 2008 From: mithro at mithis.net (Tim Ansell) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:10:14 +1030 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping and test.. In-Reply-To: <20080305211608.GO22285@ice.mudshark.org> References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> <20080305211608.GO22285@ice.mudshark.org> Message-ID: <1204800014.24169.7.camel@vaio> > - import the above CVS modules as monotone branches (prepending org.worldforge) > - cluster and serve the branches on blue.worldforge.org > - post a note on how to clone the repositories > > When resistance is quashed: > - put the CVS server in RO mode > - rsync the CVSROOT > - re-import the modules > - update the wiki > - monotone cheat sheet > - how to pull the database > - how to share your changes > - how to get write access > - useful tools > - monotone viz > - eventually kill the CVS server Why are you thinking about using monotone? git, bzr and mecurial are all much faster, more space efficient and are used by more communities. I would personally recommend git, it is what we are using at Thousand Parsec. Our git repositories are significantly smaller then the original CVS repository. The conversion from cvs to git is very well documented and been tested on many huge repositories (such as XFree86's repository). Tim 'Mithro' Ansell From jack at mudshark.org Thu Mar 6 08:12:58 2008 From: jack at mudshark.org (Jack Cummings) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 08:12:58 -0800 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping and test.. In-Reply-To: <1204800014.24169.7.camel@vaio> References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> <20080305211608.GO22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204800014.24169.7.camel@vaio> Message-ID: <20080306161258.GQ22285@ice.mudshark.org> On Thu, Mar 06, 2008 at 09:10:14PM +1030, Tim Ansell wrote: > Why are you thinking about using monotone? A few reasons: - I have all of the infrastructure in place - I have experience using monotone - monotone has a clean conceptual model - monotone is absolutely paranoid about data integrity (i.e. it will find bad drive controllers) - monotone has a trust model > git, bzr and mecurial are all much faster, This is true when you have > 10k revs/branch, > more space efficient I've not seen numbers on this, but I doubt it is by much. > and are used by more communities. .. and so is windows. --Jack Jack (John) Cummings http://mudshark.org/ PGP fingerprint: F18B 13A3 6D06 D48A 598D 42EA 3D53 BDC8 7917 F802 From mithro at mithis.net Thu Mar 6 14:25:49 2008 From: mithro at mithis.net (Tim Ansell) Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:55:49 +1030 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping and test.. In-Reply-To: <20080306161258.GQ22285@ice.mudshark.org> References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> <20080305211608.GO22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204800014.24169.7.camel@vaio> <20080306161258.GQ22285@ice.mudshark.org> Message-ID: <1204842349.24169.43.camel@vaio> Sorry if I sounded a critical. I only have one data point for monotone and it was not a good one. The only project I know ended who up using monotone very much regretted doing so. The clone process for the project ended up taking 2.5 hours, under git it took 9 minutes. This was all a good 1.5 years ago, so there have probably fairly large changes since then. Thousand Parsec also original decided to use Darcs, this ended up being a huge mistake for a number of reasons: * Darcs community more concerned with being right then being correct (to the point there you needed a 2GHz machine with 4gig of ram to check out a 34mb repository!) * Darcs community was small - hence the above problems (and a number of other bugs) where never fixed and still persist today. * Nobody had used Darcs before, so everyone had to learn yet another DRCS * No utility programs worked with Darcs because nobody used Darcs With this in mind, we decided to use git because it was the opposite of darcs, * Speed is very important. (To the point you wonder if git has actually done something - it feels to fast!) * There is a large and active developer community fixing and improving it (I had a bug fixed within 24 hours!) * There are large communities already using it which have repositories much bigger then we will ever be, IE the Kernel, X.org and Wine. * People much smarter then me have decided that git is the way to go. * git-cvsserver allows people who only know CVS to still checkout our code. Git also has many problems but they are being actively worked on. I don't actually develop on Worldforge anymore - so feel free to ignore me! Tim 'Mithro' Ansell From simon at worldforge.org Tue Mar 25 12:07:27 2008 From: simon at worldforge.org (Simon Goodall) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 20:07:27 +0000 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping and test.. In-Reply-To: <1204800014.24169.7.camel@vaio> References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204750336.27538.62.camel@rose> <20080305211608.GO22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204800014.24169.7.camel@vaio> Message-ID: I've recently been looking at the bzr docs and I noticed one feature that is worth mentioning. It allows direct committing to a remote repo rather than in git where you first commit to a local repo and then push your changes (this can also be done however). This allows it to have more of a cvs feel to it. Bzr would also integrate into launchpad. I've no actual experience of using it however. Simon On 06/03/2008, Tim Ansell wrote: > > - import the above CVS modules as monotone branches (prepending org.worldforge) > > - cluster and serve the branches on blue.worldforge.org > > - post a note on how to clone the repositories > > > > When resistance is quashed: > > - put the CVS server in RO mode > > - rsync the CVSROOT > > - re-import the modules > > - update the wiki > > - monotone cheat sheet > > - how to pull the database > > - how to share your changes > > - how to get write access > > - useful tools > > - monotone viz > > - eventually kill the CVS server > > > Why are you thinking about using monotone? > > git, bzr and mecurial are all much faster, more space efficient and are > used by more communities. > > I would personally recommend git, it is what we are using at Thousand > Parsec. Our git repositories are significantly smaller then the original > CVS repository. > > The conversion from cvs to git is very well documented and been tested > on many huge repositories (such as XFree86's repository). > > Tim 'Mithro' Ansell > > > _______________________________________________ > Infra mailing list > Infra at mail.worldforge.org > http://mail.worldforge.org/lists/listinfo/infra > From blin at gmx.net Tue Mar 25 14:51:33 2008 From: blin at gmx.net (Kai Blin) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:51:33 +0100 Subject: [WF-Infra] module -> branch mapping and test.. In-Reply-To: References: <20080305003041.GN22285@ice.mudshark.org> <1204800014.24169.7.camel@vaio> Message-ID: <200803252251.41027.blin@gmx.net> On Tuesday 25 March 2008 21:07:27 Simon Goodall wrote: > I've recently been looking at the bzr docs and I noticed one feature > that is worth mentioning. It allows direct committing to a remote repo > rather than in git where you first commit to a local repo and then > push your changes (this can also be done however). This allows it to > have more of a cvs feel to it. Bzr would also integrate into > launchpad. Launchpad integration is about the only thing that bzr has on the bonus side, imho. I has very limited support for merging, which makes it less of a DVCS and more of a "offline wrapper for svn". We've played around a bit with that for Samba and concluded it was pretty slow. Cheers, Kai -- Kai Blin WorldForge developer http://www.worldforge.org/ Wine developer http://wiki.winehq.org/KaiBlin Samba team member http://www.samba.org/samba/team/ -- Will code for cotton. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. 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